Episode #46: A Conversation About: The Mental Health Impact on the Federal Workforce Due to Firings
In this episode, the X-Podcast team reacts to and discusses an article and podcast about federal workers and contractors who have been fired and the mental health implications to them. This is the actual copy from the article I will be reading from and referring to as we discuss and react to it. Transcript is also included. NPR article. February 24, 20254:07 AM ET. Heard on Morning Edition By Katia Riddle
Mental Health Issues Ripple Through the Federal Workforce with Firings
Federal workers and contractors who have been fired hastily in recent weeks say among the many personal and financial costs of these terminations is their mental health. Thousands of workers across the federal government including at the Department of Education, the Department of Veterans Affairs, USAID and the Environmental Protection Agency have been terminated — in many cases with little explanation or process — since President Trump took office. Elon Musk's efficiency effort known as DOGE initiated the mass firings.
Nadia Shadravan was working as a contractor evaluating projects for USAID until she received a furlough notice. For the last three years she's been living and working in Senegal with her husband and two children, ages 14 and 12.
"I can see the worry in their faces," she says of her children. "I don't want them to worry about me, but I do think it's unavoidable and I see that they're stressed about the idea of what this is going to mean for our family."
A Hit to Productivity
Some experts warn that destabilizing the collective mental health of the workforce with these kinds of unprecedented firings will undermine productivity. "I have never seen anything that from the outside looks so random, sloppy — the impact is intimidation and fear," says Amy Edmondson, who studies organizational psychology at Harvard Business School.
Employees still working in such environments will be less productive, Edmonson's research shows.
Last week, Musk brandished a chainsaw on stage at the CPAC conference, referencing the job cuts. On Saturday, employees across the government got an email asking them to list five things they got done last week by midnight Monday. On X, Musk said not answering the email would amount to a resignation.
A Tsunami Across the Field
Shadravan says she has no job prospects and no idea where her family will land. Her husband is employed as a teacher, but she worries his job is also in jeopardy given many of his students are the children of Americans posted abroad and also dependent on the funding ecosystem of USAID, which stands for the U.S. Agency for International Development.
Shadravan describes the USAID shutdown as a tsunami across the entire field. "Opening up LinkedIn and literally all you see is everyone with the same message," she says. "Everyone you've ever worked with, everyone you've ever connected with professionally is in the exact same situation as you and is out of a job."
The ripple effects of trauma are sweeping across federal agencies. For some, just the fear of being fired has induced mental health crises. One federal employee — Joe, who asked NPR not to use his full name over concerns about retaliation, describes his symptoms as, "spiraling, anxiety driven, heart palpitating, headache, can't breathe."
In January, Joe took an approved leave of absence to help a sick family member. "I was told 'Do what you got to do,'" he recalls, and says he felt grateful to be able to support his family during a difficult time.
But when he opened up his computer after weeks of absence, Joe discovered he had missed the deadline for Elon Musk's "fork in the road" offer to resign now and be paid through the summer. As a relatively recent hire, he felt he was a likely candidate to be fired and feared that he had missed his chance for any compensation.
"I had such an anxiety panic attack, I called the suicide hotline," Joe recalls, referring to the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline.
After several debilitating weeks, Joe says he was finally informed that he would be able to take advantage of the offer — assuming the courts affirm its legality. He says staying in this job would be difficult as he was living in fear of getting fired: "Every time I went to open the emails, it was a knot in my stomach."
Harvard Business School's Edmondson says making healthy cuts at an organization is possible, but it takes time and "engaging deeply and clearly the question of what must this organization deliver, what will it require to deliver it, and then kind of who's needed, who isn't needed."
Without that process, says Edmondson, organizations jeopardize something she calls team psychological safety. Workers who don't feel safe aren't very good at their jobs.
"Put Them in Trauma"
Administration officials have suggested that making federal workers feel targeted is one of its goals. Just before the election, ProPublica and Documented surfaced a speech from Russell Vought, now Trump's Director of the Office of Management and Budget, in which Vought said, "We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected."
Vought's office did not respond to requests for comments for this story, nor did other federal agencies contacted. "We want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains," said Vought in the speech. He went on to say, "We want to put them in trauma."
For federal workers Nadia Shadravan and Joe, that effort has been successful.
If you or someone you know is in crisis, you can call or text 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline.
Have information you want to share about the ongoing changes across the federal government?
Katia Riddle is available through encrypted communications on Signal at Katia.75
Transcript:
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Those emails asking federal workers to explain what they did last week come after tens of thousands of their colleagues were fired hastily or lost their jobs when funding was halted. Among other impacts, workers say the firings take a real toll on their mental health. A warning to listeners, this story contains a mention of suicide. NPR's Katia Riddle reports.
KATIA RIDDLE, BYLINE: Telling her kids was one of the hardest parts for Nadia Shadravan.
NADIA SHADRAVAN: I can see the kind of worry in their faces.
RIDDLE: Her husband and their two kids have been living in Senegal for the last three years. She was working as a federal contractor, evaluating USAID health and education projects. Now that she's been furloughed, the family is in free fall. Her kids are 14 and 12.
SHADRAVAN: I don't want them to worry about me, but I do think it's unavoidable. And I see that they're stressed about the idea of what this is going to mean for our family.
RIDDLE: She has no job prospects, no idea where their family will go. She describes the USAID shutdown as a tsunami across the entire field.
SHADRAVAN: Opening up LinkedIn, and literally all you see is everyone with the same message, that everyone you've ever worked with, everyone you've ever connected with professionally is in the exact same situation as you and is out of a job.
RIDDLE: The ripple effects of trauma are sweeping across federal agencies and not just for the people who have been fired. For many, it's the fear of being fired.
JOE: Spiraling, anxiety-driven, heart-palpitating, headache, can't breathe.
RIDDLE: This man works for a federal agency. He asked to be identified only as Joe for fear of retribution. In January, he took an approved leave of absence to help a sick family member.
JOE: I was told take care of it, you know, do what you got to do.
RIDDLE: He was grateful to be able to support his family during a difficult time.
JOE: I wouldn't change that for anything.
RIDDLE: When he opened up his computer after weeks of absence, he discovered he had missed the deadline for Elon Musk's fork in the road offer to resign now and be paid through the summer. He's one of the newest members on the team. He felt he was a likely candidate to get fired anyway. He feared that he had missed his chance for any compensation.
JOE: I had such a anxiety panic attack, I mean, I called the suicide hotline.
RIDDLE: Called the suicide hotline. Those weeks of uncertainty were debilitating. He finally got word that he may still be eligible for the offer. Now he says staying in this job would be hard. He can't live in fear of getting fired.
JOE: Every time I went to open the emails, it was like knots in my stomach.
RIDDLE: Some experts say that's the risk of these kind of unprecedented firings. Amy Edmondson studies organizational psychology at Harvard Business School.
AMY EDMONDSON: I have never seen anything that from the outside looks so random, sloppy. The impact is intimidation and fear.
RIDDLE: Edmondson says making healthy cuts at an organization takes time and thought.
EDMONDSON: Engaging deeply and clearly the question of, what must this organization deliver? What will it require to deliver it? And then kind of who's needed, who isn't needed?
RIDDLE: Lacking that, says Edmondson, jeopardizes something she calls team psychological safety. Workers who don't feel safe aren't very good at their jobs. In fact, that might be the administration's intention. Just before the election, ProPublica surfaced this speech from Russell Vought. He's now Trump's director of the Office for Management and Budget.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
RUSSELL VOUGHT: We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected.
RIDDLE: His office did not respond to requests for comment for the story, nor did the other federal agencies mentioned.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
VOUGHT: When they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work.
(LAUGHTER)
VOUGHT: Because they are increasingly viewed as the villains.
RIDDLE: He went on to say...
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
VOUGHT: We want to put them in trauma.
RIDDLE: For federal workers Nadia Shadravan and Joe, that has happened. Katia Riddle, NPR News.
(SOUNDBITE OF SIX ORGANS OF ADMITTANCE'S "RESERVOIR")
FADEL: If you or someone you know may be considering suicide or is in crisis, call or text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline.
(SOUNDBITE OF SIX ORGANS OF ADMITTANCE'S "RESERVOIR")
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References
Mental health issues ripple through the federal workforce with firings
February 24, 20254:07 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition
By Katia Riddle
